such an interesting post - thank you so much Rob! You know I am big fan of your substack - one of the most precious things about it besides your amazing photos is your audio- I love clicking that first and then reading the post. It really puts you in there. Thank you!!!
Thanks so much Nat! Making and editing the recordings together is one of my favorite things to do. A couple of other people have said that they like to listen to the recordings while they read which makes me think that maybe I should put them near the top. In any event, glad you like them and thanks for letting me know!
I recently visited boro park on a friday afternoon, to witness the mayhem ahead of Shabbat. Minor flaw in my plan-- I brought my dog for a walk. Walking towards 13th avenue from the F train, I noticed that nearly everyone was going out of their way leaving the sidewalk and walking in the street, instead of walking past me. Once I got to the main avenue, I realized that almost all of the kids were terrified of my dog! My 20 pound dachshund chihuahua mix! I kept him on a very short leash and eventually picked him up and carried him. Some parents lifted babies out of stroller and said (in Hebrew) "Look, dog!"
I asked an older man on the street what was up with that, and he explained that a certain understanding of the Torah forbids owning a pet, since God intends you to love other humans, not animals. So (according to him) 99% of kids in the neighborhood have never seen a dog and wouldn't know the difference between a dog and a cat. I never would've known!
This is not a mainstream understanding of the Torah and many Orthodox Jews, even ultra Orthodox and Chasidic people have pets (I say this as an Orthodox woman with two cats and a turtle). There are plenty of ordinary reasons people in the community don’t have pets - space, cost, bandwidth, allergies. Some more culturally nuanced reasons - Holocaust trauma passed down of witnessing cats and dogs eat the remains of your fellow Jews and even family members. Plenty of kids of all backgrounds are scared of animals that are unfamiliar. Maybe they were even giving you space as a courtesy.
It’s unfair and untrue to say that the kids don’t know the difference between cats and dogs, and I’m not sure the person who said that to you wasn’t messing with you. First of all, there are a ton of stray cats in Brooklyn. Second, they read children’s books like all other kids (even if some are in Hebrew or Yiddish), which have animals in them so even if they never saw a dog in real life, they’d have seen one in books or games or on clothes.
I used to work at the Prospect Park Zoo. There were a lot of Chasidic groups that came through daily. The kids knew all about the animals. One song that a camp group sang still stands out to me 20 years later - “Who made the kangaroo who goes hop hop? You and I know that it was Hashem.” This community is far more educated and aware than you might think.
I’m sure this comment was not meant to offend in any way, but this kind of generalization and othering is super harmful. I feel similarly about the photos of the men watching the eclipse - would it be okay to “want a book” of any other cultural group looking at an eclipse? The subtext is: Wow! Look at these funny men with their funny beards in funny glasses experiencing the same world we do - how bizarre! Overall, this kind of framing reinforces stereotypes that Orthodox Jews are not like the rest of society, which makes it a lot easier to dehumanize us - and leads to real world consequences.
Again, I’m not suggesting that was the intent of this comment or the essay/photos. I’m sure it was all well-meaning. But I wanted to offer some additional context/perspective since Orthodox voices are often overlooked, especially on the internet.
Fantastic details in this post! Boro Park is truly a fascinating neighborhood. The post office story on its own is memorable, but then so is everything else: the volunteer fire department and the recent fire, Robert Moses cleaving another community in two for an expressway, the Jewish community, Maimonides, the photographs of the men watching the eclipse.... so much depth and color here.
I was an Electronic Medical Records trainer, on a long term project. Since I lived in New Hyde Park (just over the Nassau County border) it wasn't a tough commute.
Slight correction. The photos of the wedding in 2007. The wedding likely took place in Bobov, the synagogue the next block over. I recognize the men in the photo as the personal gabbai'im of the Bobover rebbi and of Bobov shul. Also, I've been in beth El and in Bobov, and beth El doesn't have anything that looks like those bleachers, but Bobov does
Thanks Shoshi! I'm not sure how I came up with Beth El, but I just rechecked the article and it actually says Congregation Khal Chasidim. Does that seem accurate?
Maybe some of the celebrations took place at khal chasidim. Khal chasidim is next door to beth el, the synagogue in one of the pics. The pic inside the synagogue itself is definitely taken in Bobov itself. It's common practice for some of the celebrations of events like weddings in Bobov to happen in khal chasidim, to the point that Bobov bought khal chasidim a few years ago. Supposedly, Bobov tried to buy out beth El on multiple occasions, leading beth El to join the young israel organization.
Hmmm did not get very far. Man answered. Not sure what accent. TV on very loud in the background, sounded like a Chinese lady? I explained why I was calling but he did not seem to understand. “What are you looking for?”
I had no idea what you were talking about at first, but now I'm impressed. Not as impressed as I would have been if you had ordered the mini awning triple stack though.
such an interesting post - thank you so much Rob! You know I am big fan of your substack - one of the most precious things about it besides your amazing photos is your audio- I love clicking that first and then reading the post. It really puts you in there. Thank you!!!
Thanks so much Nat! Making and editing the recordings together is one of my favorite things to do. A couple of other people have said that they like to listen to the recordings while they read which makes me think that maybe I should put them near the top. In any event, glad you like them and thanks for letting me know!
Thanks Rob. Fascinating as always.
I recently visited boro park on a friday afternoon, to witness the mayhem ahead of Shabbat. Minor flaw in my plan-- I brought my dog for a walk. Walking towards 13th avenue from the F train, I noticed that nearly everyone was going out of their way leaving the sidewalk and walking in the street, instead of walking past me. Once I got to the main avenue, I realized that almost all of the kids were terrified of my dog! My 20 pound dachshund chihuahua mix! I kept him on a very short leash and eventually picked him up and carried him. Some parents lifted babies out of stroller and said (in Hebrew) "Look, dog!"
I asked an older man on the street what was up with that, and he explained that a certain understanding of the Torah forbids owning a pet, since God intends you to love other humans, not animals. So (according to him) 99% of kids in the neighborhood have never seen a dog and wouldn't know the difference between a dog and a cat. I never would've known!
Wow!
So interesting! Now that you bring it up, I don't remember seeing a single dog on my visits. I kind of got the same reaction from my camera.
Thanks for sharing!
This is not a mainstream understanding of the Torah and many Orthodox Jews, even ultra Orthodox and Chasidic people have pets (I say this as an Orthodox woman with two cats and a turtle). There are plenty of ordinary reasons people in the community don’t have pets - space, cost, bandwidth, allergies. Some more culturally nuanced reasons - Holocaust trauma passed down of witnessing cats and dogs eat the remains of your fellow Jews and even family members. Plenty of kids of all backgrounds are scared of animals that are unfamiliar. Maybe they were even giving you space as a courtesy.
It’s unfair and untrue to say that the kids don’t know the difference between cats and dogs, and I’m not sure the person who said that to you wasn’t messing with you. First of all, there are a ton of stray cats in Brooklyn. Second, they read children’s books like all other kids (even if some are in Hebrew or Yiddish), which have animals in them so even if they never saw a dog in real life, they’d have seen one in books or games or on clothes.
I used to work at the Prospect Park Zoo. There were a lot of Chasidic groups that came through daily. The kids knew all about the animals. One song that a camp group sang still stands out to me 20 years later - “Who made the kangaroo who goes hop hop? You and I know that it was Hashem.” This community is far more educated and aware than you might think.
I’m sure this comment was not meant to offend in any way, but this kind of generalization and othering is super harmful. I feel similarly about the photos of the men watching the eclipse - would it be okay to “want a book” of any other cultural group looking at an eclipse? The subtext is: Wow! Look at these funny men with their funny beards in funny glasses experiencing the same world we do - how bizarre! Overall, this kind of framing reinforces stereotypes that Orthodox Jews are not like the rest of society, which makes it a lot easier to dehumanize us - and leads to real world consequences.
Again, I’m not suggesting that was the intent of this comment or the essay/photos. I’m sure it was all well-meaning. But I wanted to offer some additional context/perspective since Orthodox voices are often overlooked, especially on the internet.
Fantastic details in this post! Boro Park is truly a fascinating neighborhood. The post office story on its own is memorable, but then so is everything else: the volunteer fire department and the recent fire, Robert Moses cleaving another community in two for an expressway, the Jewish community, Maimonides, the photographs of the men watching the eclipse.... so much depth and color here.
Thanks Renato! I agree, another fascinating neighborhood in a city full of them.
I worked at Maimonides for about a year and really enjoyed walking around BP. Thanks for this piece, Rob!
Thanks C.L.! what did you do at Maimonides?
I was an Electronic Medical Records trainer, on a long term project. Since I lived in New Hyde Park (just over the Nassau County border) it wasn't a tough commute.
I had also created a guide for out-of-town trainers entitled “Welcome to Borough Park, or What’s with the hats?”
Ha! I'd love to see that
It was a PowerPoint presentation. I’ll see if I can find it.
The neighborhood went from the Scottish equivalent of a "happy home" to the Hebrew equivalent in a fairly short time.
True! From a happy home to a gute heym
Great article post! Together with fabulous photographs.
One of the things that makes New York such a great city is its rich history, no doubt.
Thanks Ana!
Slight correction. The photos of the wedding in 2007. The wedding likely took place in Bobov, the synagogue the next block over. I recognize the men in the photo as the personal gabbai'im of the Bobover rebbi and of Bobov shul. Also, I've been in beth El and in Bobov, and beth El doesn't have anything that looks like those bleachers, but Bobov does
Thanks Shoshi! I'm not sure how I came up with Beth El, but I just rechecked the article and it actually says Congregation Khal Chasidim. Does that seem accurate?
Maybe some of the celebrations took place at khal chasidim. Khal chasidim is next door to beth el, the synagogue in one of the pics. The pic inside the synagogue itself is definitely taken in Bobov itself. It's common practice for some of the celebrations of events like weddings in Bobov to happen in khal chasidim, to the point that Bobov bought khal chasidim a few years ago. Supposedly, Bobov tried to buy out beth El on multiple occasions, leading beth El to join the young israel organization.
Fab post, as always. The car/baby head/flag photo should be an album cover.
Haha! That was a surreal sight for sure. I’m wondering what genre it would work for. Thanks Will!
Ok, live blogging calling the 917 number...
Hmmm did not get very far. Man answered. Not sure what accent. TV on very loud in the background, sounded like a Chinese lady? I explained why I was calling but he did not seem to understand. “What are you looking for?”
I had no idea what you were talking about at first, but now I'm impressed. Not as impressed as I would have been if you had ordered the mini awning triple stack though.
lol
Just googled looks like it belongs to Dezhang Fang In the iron working biz.
Anyway cool to know why the houses are all so crazy in boro park!
The ultimate form follows function architecture!
And yeah great audio on this one!
Thanks!